MF DOOM Interview

LSD Magazine #5

I hate to make this seem overly simplistic or like a copout from writing a decent intro to an article, but the best way I can begin is by saying this: MF DOOM is a cool motherfucler. Quicker on the return phone call than any rapper we've dealt with, Doom is well-mannered, quick-witted and as you will read, willing to talk at great lenghts. one thing I noticed right away was Doom's laugh. Its a childlike "hee-Hee-Hee" that reveals a certain mischeviousness and candor. Doom also gets really animated when he talks, especially about music, you can tell that he has a lot invested in his music emotionally, and more than stacking chips on his mind.

I remember reading an interview with Doom a while back in The Source right after the passing of his brother and fellow KMD-member SUB ROC. It made DOOM (then known as ZevLove X) seem like a highly depressed individual, chain-smoking and guzzling forties. I was really sad reading it because Doom seemed like he had nowhere to go. Elektra had dropped the group because of the "Black Sambo" being hanged on the cover of Black Bastards. Hip-hop had lost a great artist in SubRoc and it didnt evne know it. Doom was without his parner in crime, left to fend for himself in the early ninties, a not-so-friendly-to-independent releases era of rap. Fans were left only with limited bootlegs of the brillian Black Bastards LP and the "What a Niggy Know" 12" featuring the remix with MF Grimm which, if you didnt know, is one of the ten best hip-hop songs ever. And then--well, after 1994 hip-hop began its decent into hell, so you know the rest.

Fast Foward to sometime in 1996. I am hanging out at a friends house, and a song comes on the stereo (some mixtape from Baltimore) that prominently features the opening scary chords from Scooby Doo (the same ones Lord Finesse used, but chopped differently). The rhymes are some sort of rambling, raspy, despondent mantra that sounds more like a guy talking to himself than an actual rap. I ask my friends, "What the hell is this?"

"Dude, this is Zev Love X from KMD. He's MF Doom now. This is his new song, 'Dead bent'"

Ever since, I have been wanting to speak with Doom, and thanks to the fine folks at Footwork, it was hooked up. MF Doom is one of those dudes that you can't understand why he doesnt get more love. He's the guy whose song everybody likes when tey hear it, but forgets about the next day. Doom is an underdog in a rap game filled with invincible, iced-down superheroes. Doom is the anti-thesis of the prediciable media-generated image-driven year 2000 rap artist. yes, true believer, in this day and age where we have forgotten the actual human excitement of buying a new album; where all the hip-hop either produces a yawn or shrug, MF Doom is actually an artist worth getting excited about. he is an artist that LIfe Sucks Die really believes will not let us, the jaded ex-hip-hop fans, the heads that hate the "real heads", down. It's a lot of weight on the shoulders of one man, but it's all in a day's owrk for hip-hop's Super Villain.

LSD - Where did Doom come from?

MF - Actually, all my friends call me Doom, nahmean? Ever since, like, third grade-type shit. It's part of my last name. My last name is Dumile, so everyone was calling me Doom for short.

LSD - Is Doom a character?

MF - It's funny, because Doom, the Super Villain, I just named him that. It's not really me, per se, but the name Doom, I had it for so long that I never got a chance to really rock it, so I named the character Doom.

LSD - does it have to do with a sense of Doom you have in your life, in terms of your outlook on things?

MF - Not really, because shit is cool with me personally, but when I made this character, I wanted it to be a motherfucer that realy, really dont give a fuck. He's taking it to the extreme of not giving a fuck, but at the same time he's the most caring motherfucker you could really get to know, you know, as far as children, and droppin' a jewel here and there, but he's just so angry that it might seem like he's on some flipped shit and some negative shit. But in actuality, he's flipping on everything that's so negative already that's out. He's trying to turn the whole shit around. he's the villain to the villains that we know.

LSD - Did this anger come about from your dealings in the music business?

MF- Thats where I got the idea from, but it's not liek I'm really angry. Whatever, I'm making money, I'm like chillin' type shit, but the character itself is supposed to be against the mainstream of anything. Mainstream music, mainstream rap shit, he's the enemy to those motherfuckers.

LSD - So your experiences in the "rap" industry were good overall?

MF - It was good and a learning experience. It definitelly wasn't bad. Especially, you know, I'm still geein' off that shit, so it definitally was a good thing. But the way the shit is turning, I look at it like, when I do a song, when I do an album, I do it to where, what is the listener expecting to hear next? Out of all the shit that's out now, and everything that came out in the last six months, what would the listener whant to hear next? So When I came up with this super villain shit, I figured "Boom." Niggas need to hear some change, someone to go against all this player shit, all this bullshit they got out. You know, motherfuckers is talking the easy way out with this music shit, though. I make it sound as good as the character is too. I came up with most of the tracks before I had the whole concept down pat, so, to me, them shits is so ill, like deep, way deeper than some old average two-track drum machine with a little noise-type shit. It has nostalgic quality to it, as well as a timeless effect to it. So I keep that theme musically through the whole album, and have the character right there to emphasize it by saying, like, "Fuck all that bullshit that's out right now. Boom, here's what we're dealing with."

LSD - So is the use of the old-school stuff, like the KRS drums, and the Kool G Rap drums like a tribute to the old school roots?

MF - Yeah, no doubt. An equivalent to a shout-out. It's a signature style I got throughout the whole album. I'm trying to big up all the music that inspired me, even before I came out. Like I got a lot of old school R and B in there. I mean, I used to DJ before I used to MC. Back then, we used to do shit like blends and mix an R and B joint with an instrumental, so I try to keep that theme to bring back that feeling.

LSD - Were you doing shit out on the block?

MF - Yeah, we used to do block parties and shit, in the park. Musta been, like '85 or '86. We was really catching' wreck. That shit was, like, the illest time, you know?

LSD - Was that your favorite era of hip-hop?

MF - Well, see I dont like to get my personal shit into shit, but that shit was a time when shit was fuckin' live. You aint know what to expect next. But the shit aint over yet, so I can't that ws my favorite. The whole shit is phat. But yeah, that was phat, when I was really rockin'. I was, what, 18, 17- I was at that age, you know, where I was definitely feelin' it.

LSD - So you go from that era to being signed, making videos, etc. Did you feel like you had made it, or was it always a struggle?

MF - I wouldnt say it was a struggle, but we was always searching for the next ill shit, you know? We still kept moving like that. Nothing had changed, besides a little bit more paper. But that shit was fun, what I can remember of it, cause I was burnt out like a motherfucker right there and then, but...(laughs)

LSD - So then with Black Bastards, were they cool with the music, was it just the artwork that bothered the record company?

MF - Shit, I mean...this shit is bugged out, see. It wasn't like I was in contact with these motherfuckers every minute, it was more like: we started the album, we got the budget - you dont never really talk to these motherfuckers signing the checks for this shit, and they're they ones that be acting like they have the last say! It's bugged out, but...Man, them motherfuckers don't care about no music shit as long as it sell. You could be flippin' as long as it sell. But they don't want motherfuckers trying to flip on what they're trying to do. So the artwork, they saw that as a threat to some bigger shit that they was doing. It seemed like they coulndt support that because of the bigger shit that they was dealing with.

LSD - Did it have to do with the whole Ice-T controversy that was happening at the time?

MF - I'm sure that was an example of what could happen, but Ice-T was talking about some "fuck cops" shit and we were talking about some "end racism" shit. but when you're dealing with the companies, some of that racism shit is good for what they are trying to do. So it's a conflict of interest, I guess, for motherfuckers.

LSD - How much did the album get bootlegged?

MF - I heard it was a little bit. Which is good, though.

LSD - Honestly, I have a copy of it.

MF - Word? On Wax?

LSD - Yeah.

MF - That's phat yo. Somebody at the label must have had they hands on it. What label does it say on it?

LSD - It doesn't say a label on it.

MF - Oww! (laughs) That's phat. Big up whoever bootlegged it, nahmean? Big yall up. Nahmean? As long as the information and the music gets spread, that just shows that motherfuckers love the shit.

LSD - So Black Bastards doesn't come out and you get dropped from Elektra. What do you do from then until now, how do you make a living?

MF - I just been doing music. That loot [from KMD] wasn't that much, though. But I been doing music. But regardless of the fact, I'ma make it happen. I'm not the type of nigga that's supposed to be broke, you know what I'm sayin? But I been doing music throughout the whole shit, it's just now to where it's being heard more.

LSD - Was there any point before or during your career that you were on some huslin' type of stuff?

MF - (Laughs) Why that question? Where did that one come from?

LSD - Well, from what I understand in talking to people on maujor labels that aren't, you know, jay-z or multi-millionare type people, it's really hard to get money through the label and a lot of people get fucked over through their contracts.

MF - Yeah, it's hard, but when you think about hustlin' itself, huslin' is gettin it however you can get it. So you just gotta know how to hustle the label, you gotta know how to get the most out of it that you can. Like when we had that deal, it's like, them niggas, pshh..there's too much money there for you not to be creamin' 'em, you know? Of course we was tryin to cream them niggas! (laughs) You know what I'm sayin? Now, if I had a bunch of tree's, hypothetically, I would be huslin' that,tryin to get every last dollar out of 'em, but it so happens that I'm in the music shit, so every time I make a beat or something, you know I got equipment at the crib, I book sessions and shit, I'm getting every last dime out of something that I can. So I'm a hustlin type of nigga, but I hustle what I can hustle. I dont do no illegal shit, though, but everything I do is a hustle.

LSD - Because, also, I was listening to "Get You Now" from Black Bastards, and I was wondering where the violent content of that song came from, you know?

MF - See, that's the funny thing about this hip-hop and rap shit. A lot of these rappers out here, these MC's and shit, they got the public looking at them like they're the character they're talking about in the song. See, when I do music, yo, each song is like a scene, like part of a screenplay, know what I mean? Like Steven Spielberg, or one of these cats that direct films and shit. Like, who's the other cat? Young dude. Um...he did Pulp Fiction...

LSD - Tarantino

MF - Yeah, yeah, that cat for instance. Like he'll write a story, and play in the movie! Like in that Dusk Till Dawn shit. He played a ill motherfucker! And that's the audio and visual. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's like that in real life. That's one thing that should be known inhip-hop, that you're an artist. We paint pictures, like you might have an idea for a story, and put that into a song, but the artist that did the song is not the actual character that's in the song. That should be known. It's like an ill fiction novel, Sidney Sheldon or some shit.

LSD - What type of stuff inspires you creatively to sit down and write?

MF - That's a good quesiton. Sometimes I just bump into it. Most of the time I just write down a bunch of little pieces and shit. A little two-line rhyme or something, write it down, and by the end of the week, or end of the month or whatever, put the whole shit together, like, I'll hear a track or something, and it'll be so ill, that i'll put the whole shit together right there and bang.

LSD - What is the hardest part of a song for you to write?

MF - That's a good question, yo. The first line used to be kind of tricky to me when I used to try to do it. Because anything that you try real hard to do is gonna be a little more difficult. but as time passes, there's a lot of forumlas and techniques for doing shit. And you find out that when you just do shit, it goes smoother, so now, every part of the song is about the same amount of stress to come up with. (laughs) Like, I'll have eight lines on a piece of paper and just which one goes first.

LSD - When you write are you always in the presence of mind, or is it more of a stream-of-conciousness style?

MF - It floats in and out. like when it comes to grammar and making sure that the timing is right, then it's conscious, but sometimes I'll just be writing and a word will fall into the line, something that I dindt even think about putting there. It just comes to me, bang. like, "Oh Shit" See thats what I think niggas mean when they flow. like, "how does this flow" or "he's got flow" or the "flow" of a verse. There's those parts where it's just so natural, like bang, bang, nah-mean?

LSD - Creatively, is it easier for you to write when you are happy or unhappy?

MF - (pause) Man, it's bugged out. A little of both. [Pause] Actually, when I'm unhappy I come up with more retardeder shit. I mean, it's funny, though, happy and unhappy, because I'm not sure if I'm ever happy or unhappy, it's always somewhere in-between. But most of the time when I'm writing, it's more towards the unhappy, cause that's whan I say, "fuck that." Know what I'm sayin'? I'm more comfortable when I'm really happy, like chillin'. I'm like, fuck it, I aint writing nothing, I'm chillin', whatever.

LSD - Do you worry about it getting to the point where you need to be unhappy in order to produce creatively?

MF - Mmm. Anger definitely is a good source of anger for this shit, though. I come with some real ill shit on the anger tip. Personally, I think deeper when I get like that, nahmean? Some real brainstorming type shit.

LSD - Have you ever read any Charles Bukowski?

MF - Nah. What type of shit would he write?

LSD - Basically, he was an alcoholic, and he would write a lot about being stuck in the rut of needing depressiona nd alcohol to keep writing, because that was the only thing that kept him going. Do you ever feel that way?

MF - On some alcohol type shit? [laughs]

LSD - No, no. Your writing. Or alcohol, I guess.

MF - It's bugged out. It's bugged out. See, I would never put myself into a rut or downward spiral just to get the creative shit. But while I'm feeling liek that, as we all do as human beings, I definitally would utilize that shit, and get the most out of it. If something's fuckin me up, it's gonna make me some paper, not even necessarily monetarily, like dough or whatever, but something I can listen to after, and be like, "man that shit is ill."

LSD - Speaking of alcohol, I do hear a lot in the music and in interviews about drinking. Do you ever think you might have a drinking problem?

MF - [Laughs] Thats an ill question, yo! Let me think about this shit for a second. I guess I might say a little something in the music, but it goes back to the character again, Doom. he's the grimy alcohol nigga that drink every day. I did an interview for a canadian magazine, Divine Styler, talking about some beer shit, but that was more as the character. But after I did that, I been like "Whoa, lemme chill", cause motherfuckers is gonna start thinking I'm really like this. I mean, I like beer! Beer is good. I'm the type of motherfucker - I drnink beer, you know? Hard liquor - I dabble here and there, but I aint no fall otu in the street drunk, though [laughs].

LSD - Ever experiment with any hallucinogenics?

MF - Thats a strange question, yo. It's hard to answer right quick, I gotta think about that shit for a minute.

LSD - Because it seems like when you're describing things in the lyrics, it's not really straightfoward, linear thought. I can understand what you're talking about, but it's not laid out so obviously.

MF - A-ha! I'm glad you caught that. it's kinda like, dabbles on the edge-type shit. But as far as hallucinogenics, I mean, it's like "haven't we all" type shit. [laughs] I don't really get down no more, but...

LSD - You and Kurious?

MF - [Laughs] Well, he dropped it on his album, so it aint like I'm callin him out [laughs] He's actually on my album and I'm producing some shit for him.

LSD - Who is the one group that you think is deserving of more props than they get?

MF - I'd have to say my Brand Nubian brothers; they last album was rockin', yo. Shit was fucking phant, but it didnt really go where it should have. I would have liked to see it blow up like these clown niggas. [Angrily] Like these rinky-dink niggas is taking over the whole world with this bullshit! So, I'm like, yo, we gotta cut the pie up a little even here, man. Like the whole Doom shit, too, the whole super villain shit, and my team - me, Grimm, Jorge is down with us- we all on some shuttin down the mainstream rap shit, going back to the raw shit, where only certain motherfuckers can come out. They got it where anybody can come out with a ltitle half-assed beat, and they got the dough to put behind it, and have posters everywhere and have shit all over the TV, the public is automatically gonna listen, [can't read line]
It's like going to get a pair of kicks and shit. You go to a store, right, and they only got a certain selection of Adidas and some other shit, but they dont got the new Nike Airs out, so all you get to choose from is what's in the window, all the ugly shit. And you think the shit is fly because that's all you see. But we coming with the Air Maxes on motherfuckers. I mean, not necessarily trying to bring war to these motherfuckers, but...Music is something that hsould be judged by the sound, not by created image, so we gonna put this shit out there so motherfuckers will have more of a choice. You aint gonna see no bullshit pictures of somebody supposed to be me, like glorified. It aint me; it's the music, it's the art form. It's not about what I'm about, what I'm doing in my crib- I could be in this motherfucker smokin crack right now! [laughs] The music is what it's about

LSD - Thats why no pictures of you?

MF - Yeah, cause there's a lot of shit that's not being heard because of all this hoopla, with all the bullshit, you know, like, who's the flashiest motherfucker on the TV, with tanks blowin up and shit, and all that... I mean, are we artists or are we in the business of action movies? I mean, the way i see things going, with the rap shit on MTV, though, it can only help. Like, BIG, he was underground before he blew up. Shit always starts off in the underground before it gets big. So I mean, with video there's o many ways that you could freak that medium, that once the underground starts to blow, we gonna freak that shit, too. It's only a matter of time. I mean, I have faith, because I have a plan. The album is called Operation Doomsday, and it took me five years of research and putting it together to form the plan, because this is gonna break the shit. In theory, I mean, we'll see what people's reaction is.

LSD - How does having a son affect your music?

MF - Well, it's like I got a partner, you know, like I see his reaction to shit when I play him shit I been working on. And also, like the age group he's in, at that age the shit I was hearin, like Stevie Wonder and all that shit, it was always groovy to me, regardless of the content. So my son is seven, and I got a nephew that's five, and between them I got a good perspective, like a pure ear. So my shit is like some shit motherfuckers can jump on the bed to. [laughs] Plus, a lot of kids today don't know about the old shit, so when I use one of my old joints, it's like a history lesson, and like I'm givin respect to the old school, like the ballad shit. It was some groovy shit.

LSD - I'd like to ask what the constipated monkeys crew was all about, was it a graffiti crew?

MF - It's really a crew that I got introduced to through Jorge. It's really his peoples, and once I started chillin' with Jorge, me and my brother got down. It's a bunch of brothers who had the same goals and interests, on some real trying to get ahead shit. But the graffiti, that was around the same time that the DJ shit was going on. I was always into art, drawing and shit, but the graffiti came about when I was at that age, so we fit right into that shit. I used to write Zev. That's how I got that shit. Now I write Doom.

LSD - Are you still getting up, like when you perform?

MF - Well, I can't be respnsible for everywehre you see it, but it's up, though [laughs].

LSD - You live in Manhattan, is that where you grew up?

MF - Part of the time, we moved around a lot, but yeah.

LSD - What was the early years like for you?

MF - It was fun. Me and my brother Sub. Layin down the law since back then. Getting dough since I can't remember when. Before motherfuckin' niggas had sheepskins. back before bombers was really ill. Gettin' paper.

LSD - Both parents were present?

MF - Yeah, I can't complain. I feel like I'm a level-headed motherfucker. [laughs] I dont feel like I'm too bugged out, nawmean? [laughs]

LSD - Do you have any good KMD tour Stories?

MF - It's funny, cause when we was on the road, I was a real nerd-type motherfucker. After the show, I'd go right back to the hotel and handle business. I really wasn't a fun motherfucker.

LSD - Did you have a girl?

MF - That too, but, I dont know. I guess I was just the corny motherfucker out the screw. [laughs] If Sub was here, he could tell you more crazy shit, but...yeah Niggas was having fun and shit, I was like the party pooper.

LSD - You went on tour with Big Daddy Kane when you were with KMD. Was Kane gettin the most ass?

MF - [Laughs] I wasn't there to see personally, but-you know, everyone was getting their's, though. But yeah, that motherfucker had shit sewed up, he was the headliner! At the end of the show, he'd freestyle, every show. And he always had a way to end his verse, that he'd say the hotel. Like, "all you hoes wanna see Kane, go to Hotel Victoria lane" or some shit. [laughs]

LSD - That's a brilliant maneuver.

MF - Yo' every fuckin show the nigga had a ill rhyme to rhyme with the hotel. That shit was phat.

LSD - What I want to do now is talk about some of the lines I picked out of the music and try to get a more in-depth analysis of them. First off, "Except for once, I had took my fronts out and lost them shits" from "Dead Bent".

MF - Cause at the time, I had the fronts, four tops, 22 karat and shit--bang, right? Me and my crew, thats what we rock, we be havin' em like that, it's seasonal, we rock 'em.

LSD - It's seasonal?

MF - It's a common thing. I had so many sets of teeth, like a nigga's crazy! [laughs] But they always get lost eventually. They don't break, they don't get fucked up, you don't sell 'em, it's just after a certain amount of months, they just get lost by theyself. So it's a common thing between me and my friends, so I know it must be a common thing all around, like, those who have the teeth know, so I was like, "lemme make a little joke about this." A common occurrence.

LSD - Okay, how about "It's funny how significance makes a difference" from "Greenbacks"

MF - Yeah, yeah, cause motherfuckers definitely know that when you flip a flow, you can do some basic rockin and it's shallow, or you could flip a flow that, everytime someone listen to your shit, they can peep something that makes sense with it. like an underlying theme to the verse, as well as just the standard "rock the house" shit. Some type of theme that goes with it that shows craftsmanship. So that's why I say that. In that particular style I was using, I was the character King Ghidra, from Monster Island. He's a three-headed dragon, so on one of his styles is the parables of three, like flippin verses in parables of three, and using things like three syllables. So I also said "notice the parables of three in every other inference." Like when I said, "Choose your weapon, microphone, beats or the wheel of steel" or "in your Polo, Nautica, or Donna K for men." in that verse, it's always three. Even in the first verse, the three hoes, like which one you want, this, that or that ho. "I'll probably run up in all three", know what I'm sayin? I'm talking about TLC. My chick actually asked me, like I came back from atlanta, and she was like, "yeah I know you out there, did you see them chicks, I know you wanted to fuck one of 'em...", so thats where I got the idea, like, "Oh yeah!" Some creative inspiration, so I threw them up there.

LSD - Wow! That's some shit.

MF - Hell yeha, yo, you gotta keep that shit sparked up.

LSD - What is and whos idea was the Monster Island Clique?

MF - Actually, my partner Grimm came to me with the idea. He was like, my new name is "Jet Jaguar." It's this robot from the Godzilla movies, and I don't know what they made him for, but sometimes he'd get a mind of his own and just flip, the motherfucker was ill. So Grimm picked Jet Jaguar, and he was tellin me about Monster Island, the name being sonomonous (sic) with Manhattan Island. So we were trying to come up with a crew of ill motherfuckers that could really blow, so we came up with M.I.C., Monster Island Clique, or MICrophone, it all revolves around lyrics, rhymes, flows, nahmean? There's seven or eight of us and shit.

LSD - Next line: "Lex Luther got locked up in Greenhaven and since when, a nigga never really been clean shaven." Lets talk about that.

MF - [laughs] Another funny line, A true line, though. I had a partner, he got bagged and shit, so that's like my shoutout to him, my partner Luter and shit. He should be coming home soon, like 2003, he caught mad time. Some ill shit. And I was sayin, cause he's a real clean-cut brother and shit, he'd give me ill haircuts. Like a ill barber nigga, but then he got bagged, and since then I aint really getting my shit cut. So when a nigga come home...nahmean?

LSD - So you're doing it Larry Johnson style.

MF - Yeah, no question. Mad rugged. [laughs]

LSD - That actually ties in with the next line I was going to ask about, "I used to give free cuts." That goes back to you and your brother, right? You would give haircuts and DJ?

MF- Yeah, Sub was the master, he had the ill technique with clippers, yo. The illest barber in the whole motherfucking world. Anyone would tell you that. I remember he did Clark Kent, from Superman. He put the Superman symbol on the back, and had "Clark" on one side, the illest letter style, yo. It looked like it was drawn on there. And the "Kent" on the other side. I had a picture of it, but I dont know where that shit is at. [Proudly] But that nigga Sub was the nastiest with the clippers, yo.

LSD - After Sub passed, how long did it take you to really get back into the swing of things?

MF - Um...shit, that's my partner, I aint even back into the swing of things yet, with that shit, you know, losing a motherfucker. My motherfucking man right there. Shit'll never be the same-type shit, but as far as musically, I mean we kept going, we can't stop doing that, know what I mean? It's just that it wasn't heard as much, because we didnt hav ea deal and all that. But ever since, I been working on shit. I been working on this album four, five years. Or ever month, I'll have a new beat for my nigga - type shit.

LSD - When you work on music is his spirit coming through you?

MF - No question, cause it's a lot of formulas that we both came up with. A lot of formulas he came up with on the production. Motherfuckers thing you can just jump on there and do some shit. It takes thought and it takes a lot of math, a lotof equations, and Sub came up with a lot of that I still use today.

LSD - Do you feel a sense of responsiblity to keep his spirit alive through your work?

MF - Well, yeah, but that part of it is naturally going to happen. But it's more like ,d amn man, my motherfucking partner aint here to converse with, so it's like inconvenient when you're used to talking to a motherfucker like, "what the fuck? Nigga, whats up with this" - type shit. I gotta just think. It's kinda funny, and I'll never get used to it, but that's my nigga, I'ma always be with my nigga. ord. He definitely was a ill motherfucker. By now, we would have had the whole motherfucking earth under our control! [Laughs] but, I mean, everything happens for a reason, the way it's supposed to happen.

LSD - So you believe in fate and destiny?

MF - Fate and destiny are funny words, but I know ther's a governing force. We have control over what we do to an extent, but..

LSD - Has your idea of spirituality become more abstract over time? In the earlier stuff, it was more straight ahead Fiver Percent ideolgoy, and now it's a bit more abstract.

MF - Well, Doom is more of a general motherfucker-type nigga, he's not so much in a corner. Everybody has a piece of doom in them. That Super Villain, that MF, that motherfucker. KMD was more like a scripture, dealing with things that have already happened. Doom is a more wilder motherfucker, where there is no one thing he lives by. He's like the super villain all aroudn where you would be like, "Damn that motherfucker." A villain to all these other motherfuckers. I mean like with "Hey", where I used a Scooby Doo beat, on that son in particular, I did a particular style to show that we don't have to conform to whatever's supposed to be out. I mean, music is some free shit, there aint no standard to it, you can do whatever the fuck you want! A lot of people think, "Oh, you need a chorus here, and the chorus has to be eight bars"-type shit...I did it on purpose to flip the shit. Like the beat, right, I stop the beat in the middle, I stop the beat twice, and I had the beat made before the song was written, I wrote the worlds like two months later. So it's like, there aint no chorus, it's one verse for the whole shit. The only reason motherfuckers have choruses and shit like that, is so it stays interesting, but can you keep it interesting in your verse? Can you just write the shit and have it be as interesting as a motherfucker who will just stop the shit and be like, "Okay, dah da dah da dah!" on some repetitive bullshit, you know? It just goes to show.

LSD - You say in "Go With The Flow" the only people who can understand you are Jet Jaguar and James Brown. Why James Brown?

MF - [Laughs] Cause that was a crazy motherfucker! You know how people were saying he was on the leak or whatever, you have to be a crazy motherfucker to be doing that and the music, so if anyone could understand me, it would be him. [laughs] He was a crazy motherfucker.

LSD - As a final thought, hip-hop is getting a lot bigger, but also a lot shittier. Do you want to fit in to where it's going?

MF - We just have to draw a line between the rap shit and hip-hop. Rap is totally different shit than hip-hop. I mean, not knockin' it, but in hip-hop there's rules that we go by. I don't want to name names, but the whole clique of them rap niggas, they aint really no perfectionist lyricist niggas that be tryin to get wreck on the mic. They make the music for the party, but rap is being the MC that rocks the shit that nobody can fuck with. We go by what you say, not how loud you scream it. So as far as m and my team, we're into making the underground as big as the mainstream rap shit, but on some separate shit. It could get there through word of mouth like your magazine. I gotta big you up, cause through shit like this, the shit could spread and the real shit could get as big as the rap shit without big ads in the Source or Vibe, or whatever. We're just doing it off motherfuckers hearing it and feeling it.

LSD - That's something that The Source and Vibe will never understand is that there's certain things that go beyond the money aspect of things.

MF - Yeah, yeah, magazines, and even radio, there's motherfuckers getting paid to put certain shit on and keep playing it! That shit aint fair! I mean all's fair in love and war, but we gota make our shit win! So we about to turn this shit over , man. The Super Motherfucking Villain is the villain to that shit! Motherfuckers in the rap genre is gonna be hating me. [laughs] I'm they natural enemy-type shit. WORD.